Audio & Rush Transcript: Governor Cuomo is a Guest on WAMC Northeast Public Radio With Alan Chartock

Earlier today, Governor Andrew M. Cuomo was a guest on WAMC Northeast Public Radio with Alan Chartock.

AUDIO is available here.

A rush transcript of the Governor's interview is available below:

Alan Chartock: Good afternoon, Doctor.

Governor Cuomo: Good afternoon, Governor. Can you hear me?

Alan Chartock: I will contribute. I will contribute. You've convinced me you need a new phone system.

Governor Cuomo: We do, we do. I don't know if you know the old army term, a fubar, which means fouled up beyond all recognition.

Alan Chartock: Is that what you mean?

Governor Cuomo: Yeah. One word, that's what it means. Hey, tell me what's going on in the New York City subways? I read a piece, I think it was in Reuters, I'm not sure, where they were telling me that the subways have now become the new go-to place for those people who are homeless, as opposed to the homeless shelters which have been set up. Is that true?

Governor Cuomo: Well look, overall, Alan, we're in a place where we've never been right. On the New York City subways, the number of robberies are up. And the policing apparently has been down because so many NYPD have had illness because of the coronavirus. The MTA actually brought in security, private security firms, to provide security, it's gotten so bad. I can't remember when that has ever happened. Maybe it's happened, but I don't remember it. And I'm going to tell them today, I'd rather have private security firms. If they need it we could sent State Police to help the MTA. We already have State Police working with the MTA. And the MTA was supposed to hire more police. But rather than have private security firms, if they need it, I'd rather send police officers who are trained and we could send state Police.

Alan Chartock: What's the danger here? The danger that somebody would get hurt, or that something will get out of hand?

Governor Cuomo: Well, crime, they say the subways are the canary in the coal mine, right. So you always watch crime in the subways because when it starts to go bad, it starts to go bad in the subways first. I think that's the general impression. And this is an aberration, this period, NYPD is fewer people because of the coronavirus, fewer people are on the trains. But, you can't have a situation where you have fewer people on the trains and a rise in certain crimes. The shortage of personnel caused the MTA to bring in the security firm, but a security firm, you know, they're not police, they're not train, that's not what they do. And handling the public in the subways is a very tricky situation and you have to have a balanced approach. So I feel more comfortable with State Police. As I said, we have them there already. They are trained police. They've been working in the New York City area. So I'd rather send more State Police rather than have, introduce private security to work with the MTA police and the NYPD police.

Alan Chartock: Now, as I understand it, you have the most appointments to the MTA. Is there any friction between you, for example, and the mayor in all of this?

Governor Cuomo: No, I don't think it's, no, not at all. I think it's just circumstantial. We had seen an increase The NYPD, we had seen an increase in crime in New York City. The NYPD and the mayor said it was because of the bail laws that were in effect. Those laws have now changed, so it can't be that. I think it's just circumstantial. I think the police absentee rate has gone up because of the virus, no fault there. Why it's disproportionate to the subways, I don't know. But I'm just not comfortable with the private security firms, I think that would be a last resort and I don't think we're at the last resort yet.

Alan Chartock: Gotcha. Hey, you know, everyone is talking about you and the president, that you went down there. You asked for the meeting, as I understand it, right?

Governor Cuomo: Yes.

Alan Chartock: What did you want to accomplish?

Governor Cuomo: I wanted to figure out this issue about testing, which is the new frontier. No one knows testing, we've never done it before - we actually have but on a much smaller scale. But we have to bring testing up to scale very quickly, it's going to be a really impossible task, but it's also an essential task to help on the re-openings and to stabilize public health. There was a back and forth, "The federal government wasn't responsible, it's up to the states." The states say, basically on a bipartisan basis, they need help from the federal government. And there was, everyone was just missing each other, we don't have time to waste. I have been spending a lot of time getting testing up to scale. We are doing more testing in New York than any state in the country. We're doing more testing in the State of New York than most other countries on the globe per capita, Alan, so we know what we're talking about with testing. And I just wanted to cut to the chase with the White House, we do need the federal help, but to sit down - what is this function called testing? Who does what? What should the states do? What should the federal government do? And let's stop the back and forth between the federal government and the states, no more finger pointing, let's just figure it out. And I'll tell you the truth, look, the president and his people don't love me, right? That is a factual statement.

Alan Chartock: And vice-versa.

Governor Cuomo: Yeah, I was going to get to the vice-versa. The president has made his feelings about my politics clear, and I've made my feelings, my disagreements with the president clear. And the conversation has been heated and direct, and that's the way it's been for years. But I'll tell you the truth, they put that aside, we dealt with the issue on the merits and we actually came to a real agreement where we are going to try to work together, we defined tasks, who does what. And we're going to try to double the amount of tests we're doing, which is a very aggressive undertaking to go from 20,000 per day to 40,000 per day. But look. They put aside their feelings and their emotions and they focused on the job at hand, and I respect them you know.

Alan Chartock: Who was the 'they'? Was it Mnuchin? Who was there?

Governor Cuomo: Secretary Mnuchin was there. Mark Meadows, the Chief of Staff, was there. The president was there. We had a series of discussions. Dr. Birx was there who does the briefings on the Coronavirus Task Force. Admiral Giroir was there. Jared Kushner was there, who knows New York, who was very helpful in expediting a lot of issues. So, you know, all the main players were all there and it worked. And the reason I am saying it was good and surprisingly good, because really Alan, that's the way it should be. Who really cares how I feel about the president or how the president feels about me?

Governor Cuomo: Who really cares about how I feel about the President or the President feels about me? Who cares about how -

Alan Chartock: I care. I look at the television. I think the guy is a monster. I yell at the television and I say get off of there you are terrible. And so I am assuming, since you have feelings too, and you've already expressed them. That you might not be happy either with these guys. And yet you have got to sit in a room with them and pretend that you can get stuff done.

Governor Cuomo: But you have to. You have to because, look, we use the analogy of a war. And it is a war. People are dying. You are in a foxhole with someone. Nobody says "well do you like who you are in the foxhole with? If you don't like him then don't defend him. If you do like him then defend him." You are in the foxhole. You are in the foxhole. Here is the person. It is not about your emotions. It is far weightier than your personal feelings. Do your job in the foxhole. Charge the hill. Get up to top of the hill. Take the hill. That is your job. Do your job and put your own personal feelings aside and deal with them sometime down the road when you have the luxury of dealing with your emotions. That is how it should work in crisis and that is how it worked yesterday.

Alan Chartock: What about Bloomberg? Now how did that happen? All of a sudden you are telling us that the former NYC Mayor will be involved in a tri-state effort to trace and isolate. What exactly is he going to do? And secondly, how did it come about?

Governor Cuomo: We have to undertake this testing, tracing, isolation. It is hundreds of people, newly trained, never been done before. How do you trace a person quickly, find all their contacts who may be positive, get them to isolation, coordinate with local health departments to make sure they're following up on the quarantine, and you have to do it for the tri-state area and you have to do it tomorrow. It is an enormous undertaking.

Alan Chartock: So, who called who? Did you call him or did he call you?

Governor Cuomo: I don't know how the conversation started. I know Michael Bloomberg has been very engaged in doing good things since he was Mayor. I worked with the Mayor obviously when he was mayor for a number of years. And he is a good fellow and he was a good manager with good people, and that is what we need now. And he was willing to come forward because he wanted to help because he is a New Yorker and he wants to do his part. I appreciate that and respect it. And he has tremendous capacity, tremendous experience. He also was running a company that went through the China shutdown and open up and went through the European shutdown and opening up. So he has seen this. He has been there. He knows what worked and what didn't work. And he is willing to help and God bless. I need help.

Alan Chartock: So, you really don't remember whether you picked up the phone and called him or somebody else called him or he called you? I think that's important. That's why I am asking.

Governor Cuomo: No, but it didn't start with me. It started with Melissa DeRosa, the Secretary to the Governor, brought the idea to me. She had been talking to them. I don't know how it started.

Alan Chartock: She is terrific by the way. I just thought that I would mention that.

Governor Cuomo: She is a superstar. She really is a superstar.

Alan Chartock: It is unbelievable the way she is always ready during these press conferences and what she does. Okay, so will you be talking to Bloomberg on a regular basis? Or how is that going to work? Who is going to handle that?

Governor Cuomo: Yes, I'll be talking to Mike. Yes.

Alan Chartock: And he is apparently putting $10 million of his own money into this at least?

Governor Cuomo: At least, yes, because again, we have Johns Hopkins, et cetera, and Mike has worked with them and funded their organization so there is an infrastructure that is already in place but he is an enormously capable person obviously and this is an essential task and as I said New York needs help where we're doing these things that we've never done before. They have to be brought to scale on a level never imagined. So get as many good people to help as you can.

Alan Chartock: Can I got a place I probably shouldn't go with you? I just thought I'd ask about this - there used to be a lot of people who say well, Andrew tough guy, Andrew is too tough, I don't like him, and yet now so many of those people including a wonderful doctor I was talking to today said, I never liked him but now I really love him and I've great respect for him and I wrote him a letter. Have you had a personality change?

Governor Cuomo: No. Has the doctor?

Alan Chartock: No, but here you are, it's like Eisenhower before the Normandy invasion. Here you are, has this changed you is the question, and I think it's a fair question.

Governor Cuomo: Yes, but let's do this on two levels. Do I operate any differently in my job? No. I do the same press conference the same way, the same PowerPoint that they all ridiculed by the way for years, and then I'm with Dr. Birx in the White House yesterday and she says those PowerPoints are so good because people need to have both the visual as well as the auditory because they process differently. I said, thank you, Doctor; I wish you were in New York. But anyway, I did the same thing, Alan. You know me 100 years. I do exactly the same thing. Now, government matters more to people now than before. It always mattered to me and I always thought it was an art form and I always thought it had great potential to do great things but, you know, people weren't there. Government became like a boutique cocktail party discussion but it wasn't highly relevant and now, yeah, it matters and competence matters and performance matters and it's a matter of life and death so their perspective changed, not mine. But on your question of have I changed—

Alan Chartock: Yes, that's the question.

Governor Cuomo: This is a humbling experience, you know. It is 15,000 people dying. 15,000 people dying and you can't do anything about it. You can't protect your children. Your brother gets sick. There's nothing you can even do about it. Friends are in the hospital. You can't even go see them. I mean it is, you think you had any control of your own life, of others, and man plans and God laughs and I mean one days it's all a mockery. You control nothing. You're Governor of a state. You're trying to help people. Over 400 people died yesterday so despite all your efforts, bring hospital capacity up to 90,000 frontline workers, everyone does everything they could do - it was a beautiful manifestation of social compassion and mobilization and still you can't save lives. I mean that is a really sad reality to be faced with.

Alan Chartock: Well you have a hell of a job. Let's face it. It's a hell of a job. You have a fairly large staff that works.

Governor Cuomo: And still you can't save lives. I mean that is a really sad reality to be faced with.

Alan Chartock: Well you have a hell of a job. Let's face it - you have a hell of a job. You have a fairly large staff that works for you. you mentioned Melissa DeRosa who's so terrific and all the other people - do you ever lose your temper? Do you ever say, "Hey wait a second, let's get this right, come on folks, let's go."

Governor Cuomo: Yeah, I have a capacity to lose my temper. I have a high standard - more so when I was younger to tell you the truth.

Alan Chartock: That's what I meant.

Governor Cuomo: Well, is there a mellowing over years? Yes. That is true - it was true with my father, it's true with me, it's true with most people. But in this immediate situation? No, I have not lost my temper at all. Losing a temper is almost a luxury. Any emotion is a luxury, right? "I feel bad, I feel sad, I feel angry, I feel frustrated." Who cares how you feel? Just do the job now. Put all those nice emotions in a box and we'll deal with them down the road. So no, whatever it's been, 53 days, no. But you don't have the luxury of emotions. Nobody cares and nobody should care. Just do the darn job, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And then we'll figure it out.

Alan Chartock: You keep saying, "We'll deal with that later, we'll deal with that later." Should people be scared if they screwed you during this time or screwed around with you?

Governor Cuomo: Be scared of what?

Alan Chartock: You.

Governor Cuomo: What - that I'm going to get them in the afterlife? What am I going to do? What recrimination is there?

Alan Chartock: Get them in the afterlife, I love that. So, look, Mitch McConnell, not one of my favorite people in the world, said today that struggling state and local governments should declare bankruptcy rather than federal aid to stay afloat and said the aid was a Blue State Bailout. What do you think?

Governor Cuomo: That is one of the saddest, really dumb comments of all time. Okay, let's have all the states declare bankruptcy - that's the way to bring the national economy back. And then hyperpartisan "blue state." No, not "blue" state, not "red" state, states where people are dying. Why don't we think about that? Not red and blue. Red, white and blue. They're just Americans dying. The coronavirus doesn't' infect Democrats or Republicans, it just infects Americans. When are they going to stop with the partisanship? Not even on life and death? I mean it's so ridiculous, and for them not to fund the states. It's not like the states, I put the money in my pocket. They funded small businesses. Great, good move. How about police? How about fire? How about teachers? How about schools? "The governors have to reopen." Okay, do you want states bankrupt as he just said when we are supposed to be doing reopening? You want to reopen the economy, Mr. McConnell so everybody gets their job back? But the people you put in charge of reopening, the governors in the states, should declare bankruptcy? That's how you want to reopen? By bankrupting the states? That's going to get people back to work faster? I mean it's just a really dumb statement.

Alan Chartock: There have been protestors that have been coming around the Capitol, honking their horns, saying, "We want back in. We don't want you to stop us from doing anything we want to do". Do you suspect as I do, I certainly do, that the Trump people are putting them up to this?

Governor Cuomo: Look, do I think politics is behind it? Probably. Gambling, yes. I'm not surprised and look, do they express a frustration that is real? Yes. The frustration is universal. I haven't gotten a paycheck, the bills keep coming, the bills are stacking up, I don't know when I'll go back to work, I don't know if I'll have a job when I go back to work. I don't know if my business will be there. I have high anxiety and I can't stay in the house any longer. I get it. The question is what do you do about it? It's so easy to express the frustration. So I let everybody go back to work and then more people die. Well that's not okay. It's just not okay. Not after our grand accomplishment, which has been controlling the spread of virus, because we did all of the above. Close down, double the hospital capacity, front line health care workers doing a phenomenal job, police go out there and keep us safe and get sick. All of this we should throw away the accomplishment because now we're frustrated and we're emotionally bothered by staying in place? No, that's not the right response.

Alan Chartock: Do they get you angry? These folks and the honking horns and cars.

Governor Cuomo: No, I don't care. Again, forget anger. Anger we do when they get a vaccine. After the vaccine we get very angry for a prolonged period of time. But we don't have that luxury now. No, they do pressure local governments and what we have to watch is the local officials. First, the local officials all want to be able to say, "Well, I'm in charge here. I make the rules in my town, in my village, my city, my county." They're feeling political pressure and my phone rings with them on the other end. They say, "I have a lot of political pressure here." To them I say, number one, now is no time to do anything stupid. Number two, don't worry about it because you have the greatest excuse in the world: You don't have the legal authority to make any of these decisions.

The state emergency order says, in essence, the local officials can't open their own schools and they can't open their parks and their whatever they want to do. So, they have a perfect out. Just say I can't do it, blame the Governor because it is me. If they're feeling political pressure, they can't do it legally. The law is on their side, they can say they would love to do it, but the Governor is stopping me. Just point at me.

Alan Chartock: Is there anybody in particular you'd like to name right here, right now who has gotten you on the phone and who you find who's really gone over the - is there a name you want to give us?

Governor Cuomo: No names. No names. But look, I get the political pressure. I get it, I get the desire to show you're in control of your elected subdivision. I get that. But then I say to them, look, you say you're going to open your schools. I'm going to say, "No, you're not." Now what happens? You don't open your schools and all you've communicated to the public is chaos and confusion and political division, which is the last thing we should be communicating now. People need to believe that their government is working and believe in its competence because that's the only they have. That's the only thing they have, that our leaders know what they're doing. Why do so many people watch my boring briefing? Because they want the information.

Alan Chartock: It's not boring, it's terrific.

Governor Cuomo: Thank you for saying that.

Alan Chartock: I'd like to ask you a question. I'd like to know from last week, since you are on the floor, on the cover of Rolling Stone and now you're a rock star - a lot of people think so. I saw your sister-in-law talking about how this long line of people want to date you, for whatever that's worth. Can you remember what the first album you ever bought was?

Governor Cuomo: Let's get back to this long line of people who want to date me. Do we have names on that list? Do you have any names there?

Alan Chartock: You give me your names, I'll give you my names. That must have been quite a thing to be on the cover of Rolling Stone. Not since you were picking up cars in your John Travolta jacket, back in the day, have you been this distinguished by a major cultural group like Rolling Stone. It's kind of gone to you - the kids must have loved it.

Governor Cuomo: First of all, I still have my John Travolta jacket and I still wear it. It is now cool, by the way. Now they call it cool. Did you see how terrible the picture was? The picture was so bad and it was a great likeness, which actually made it worse.

Alan Chartock: I actually thought it was quite distinguished and quite an honor to be on the cover of Rolling Stone. Anybody can be in the New York Times or one of those places, but Rolling Stone? That puts you in a whole other league, Governor, and I think you should accept that for what it's worth.

Governor Cuomo: I looked at that picture - I saw my father's face when I looked at that picture.

Alan Chartock: We all do that. That's amazing. That shouldn't have bothered you, right? I mean, you love your father. I can seldom think of anybody who loves their parent more. You know, I've often written and said that you both love him and you compete with him. Do you think that's fair?

Governor Cuomo: Oh, I don't compete with him. I know you say that and I know you think that and I know Freudian blah blah blah. I have nothing but pure love for that man. Whatever he did, we did together. Positive or negative. That's why I took the criticism of him to heart while he was in office and after. Because I was part of whatever he did and he was part of whatever I did. What do you think that I wasn't talking to him when I became governor? It wasn't a one sided relationship. Whatever I did, he was part of it. We did that marriage equality bill. He was so happy, so proud. The infrastructure work he loved because that was one of the great criticism of him, right? Post-defeat where they all came out, all the critics and all the Monday morning quarterbacks. "Well this is what he didn't do, he was a governor of words but no action, no accomplishment. All he did was the rest stops on the thruway." All that ugly nastiness in this business. I endured all of that with him and he was part of what I did. There was no competition.

Alan Chartock: Well, you say you're running for a fourth term. He couldn't make that fourth term. Now a little bit competitive?

Governor Cuomo: No. Look, I'm saying I think I'm good at doing this. I want the people to hire me again. I don't want to do anything else, Alan. Go to Washington -- I've been there. I did that. I don't want to do that again. I want to do my best service. When the people of New York say we've had enough of you, fine. Then that's that.

Alan Chartock: You say you want to test 19 million people. Can you really do that?

Governor Cuomo: No.

Alan Chartock: I mean there's 8 million people in New York, right?

Governor Cuomo: No. You can't do that. You'll never get past -- look, if your maximum is 40,000 a day, you know, so your maximum if you did that seven days a week. What're you going to do it, six days a week. So, you do 250,000 per week. You do a million a month. You know, how long can you do this? How long until a therapeutic or until a vaccine? You'll never get there, but you do the best you can and you set the bar high. You know, that's what I do.

Alan Chartock: So, I'm still puzzled about how you are doing all of this. You know, you turn on the television and there you are, doing a terrific job I may say, and then you're here for us at WAMC. We're very proud of this, by the way, and you know, do you ever rest? I mean is there ever a moment when you say, "Okay, I'm just exhausted." You talk about having extra time to talk to your kids, but I don't know where that's coming from because all I do is see you working.

Governor Cuomo: Well, the kids are there. The kids are just restless, roaming. Roaming and restless, and I get home and they want answers: "When does this end? What're you doing? Can't you end it now? Can you end it next week? I have places to go, people to see, dad. I can't hang out with you anymore."

Alan Chartock: Yeah, well that happens, right. What about A.J. Parkinson? Now, A.J Parkinson, as you know, was a fabulous philosopher.

Governor Cuomo: Yes, fabulous.

Alan Chartock: Yes, fabulous and made all kinds of headlines. There are those people who falsely accuse your father of having made up A.J. Parkinson.

Governor Cuomo: Never. Never. What a false accusation.

Alan Chartock: That could not be. But the other day you came up with a rule, a law, and it sounded like something A.J. Parkinson may have come up with. You know, it was a law about how you treat your son-in-law. No, not your son-in-law, but your daughter's bub, and it sounded like a particular A.J. Parkinson moment.

Governor Cuomo: Well, I'll tell you what's funny. I quoted A.J. Parkinson last week on the screen. Nobody said a word.

Alan Chartock: Is that right?

Governor Cuomo: Yes, nobody said a word, which means they are not students of A.J. Parkinson.

Alan Chartock: Oh no. Well, some of them are really not with it because some people actually think there is no A.J. Parksinson, but we know there is. It was one of your father's most brilliant inventions, because everybody knows Parkinson's Law and everything else. So, when he came up with A.J. Parkinson, it was amazing. There was quiet there too. I think it was the New York Times who finally figured out, or suggested probably falsely that there was no A.J. Parkinson.

Governor Cuomo: Yeah, to which you could never prove. It was so Mario brilliant, right? Prove there is no A.J. Parkinson. First of all, there are A.J. Parkinson's. There are numerous A.J. Parkinson's. It could be Andrew John Parkinson. It could be Aaron Judah Parkinson. There are A.J. Parkinson's, so go prove that no A.J. Parkinson said that. I dare you.

Alan Chartock: Governor, I've taken up far too much of your time because of the little problem we had in getting started today and I do apologize for that. I know how valuable your time is and I'm sure you have something else to do right now, right?

Governor Cuomo: Always do, always do, you know being governor. This is why we get the big bucks. Take care of yourself, doctor. Get a new phone system. I will contribute, you have convinced me.

Alan Chartock: You're the best. Thanks, bye.

Governor Cuomo: Thanks, bye.