Audio & Rush Transcript: Governor Cuomo is a Guest on The Roundtable with Alan Chartock on WAMC Northeast Public Radio

Earlier today, Governor Andrew M. Cuomo was a guest The Roundtable with Alan Chartock on WAMC Northeast Public Radio.

AUDIO is available here.

A rush transcript of the Governor's interview is available below:

Alan Chartock: Did you say hello Governor?

Governor Cuomo: I said hello I am glad to hear you are glowing this morning.

Alan Chartock: Oh yes, we are glowing. We did extremely well in our fund drive - $1 million. And we were only on a couple hours this morning. Our famous locked box is doing very well. People put money in it. The President's budget is out. Apparently he wants to do away with the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, the CPB, and kill public radio. But we are not going to let him. Let's start, Donald Trump and Andrew Cuomo are battling over the Federal government's ban preventing New Yorkers from enrolling in Trusted Traveler Programs. Trump wrote in his tweet that "Governor Cuomo wanted to see me this weekend. He just cancelled. Very hard to work with New York, so stupid."

Governor Cuomo: Yes, and your question is fact or fiction?

Alan Chartock: Yeah, fact or fiction?

Governor Cuomo: Dream or reality?

Alan Chartock: Dream or reality.

Governor Cuomo: It's a dream except the dream is a nightmare. We are not actually fighting about TTP right? It is actually more basic than that. We are fighting over basic disagreement on immigration policy and he is running for reelection on his immigration policy, which is anti-immigration. And he uses it as a wedge to divide the body politic and give them a simple answer to all their problems: it's the immigrants. It's the different people, different religion, different race, and different creed. Simple political device, it's called divide and conquer. It has been around for a long time. Ugly, mean, untrue, but effective - divide and conquer. That is the disagreement. The manifestation is New York and fifteen other states have laws that allow undocumented people to get driver licenses. Because my daughters are the people's daughters, children, family members, drive on the roads. We want to make sure people have licenses and they took a test and they know what they are doing. As a manifestation and furtherance of the immigration debate, well if you allow undocumenteds to get a license then we are going to penalize you any way we can, even if it is illegal and unrelated. Just to make the political point that we disagree with you giving drivers licenses to undocumenteds. And this, they are going to set their attack operatives at the Department of Homeland Security, Deputy Secretary Cuccinelli. Who is Deputy Secretary Cuccinelli? He is the Republican conservative, ran for Governor or Virginia and lost, who suggested we rewrite the Emma Lazarus poem on the Statue of Liberty, and it shouldn't say give me your tired, you poor, it should say give me your tired, your poor who are self-sustaining and will not be a public charge, which means all of our people would have been turned away including probably the Trumps and the Pences. So, Cuccinelli says we are going to revoke the TTP program, Trusted Traveler Program, if you have this law and we are going to start with New York.

Alan Chartock: Now of course this is killing, will kill a lot of the business trade that we have in this area. People who listen to this radio station here and in Plattsburgh, they depend on being able to do business and do it quickly and get across quickly. Do they have any hope?

Governor Cuomo: I think they have hope because it is so bizarre and illegal and retaliatory and gratuitous. Their position is we are going to revoke the Trusted Traveler Program which basically allow an expedited crossing across the border, Peace Bridge, some bridges to Canada, and coming in from trips overseas at airports where you are prescreened by the Federal government for clearance. That's what the Trusted Traveler Program is. You sit with a federal official in person, you give your information to a federal official, you give your documentation in person, they verify it, and you then get a certification that says you're prescreened to go across a border. How the heck they can defend, well because you have undocumented people on your driver's license program that then affects the Trusted Traveler program. There is no connection, and that's clear. The Daily News did an editorial today. The Times wrote a story originally where even the authorizing Congress people say there is no connection between the two. This is just their political stretch to push their point. Why do they do it in New York? Because they're going to lose New York anyway they believe come Election Day. And since they're so hyper political, since we're going to lose New York, well then just kick New York, right, because we're not going to win and if we're not going to win we don't care about them because they're hyper political, Alan.

And they've done that all along. The SALT taxes - I was in the governors' conference this weekend - the SALT eliminating the deductible state and local taxes literally took billions of dollars from Democratic states and transferred it to Republican states. That's what that did in their tax plan that they passed. Why? Because they are going to lose Democratic states, so let's take money from the Democratic states and give it to the Republican states who are going to vote for us. That's all this is.

Alan Chartock: Okay but I want to get back to the original question, Governor, if I may. Trump says Governor Cuomo wanted to see me this weekend. He just canceled, very hard to work with New York, so stupid, all they do is sue me all the time, and of course you and the State Attorney General are suing him over this. But is it true? I mean I just want to get the dynamic of whether you are willing to meet with him or not.

Governor Cuomo: No, it is, there is no truth to it. I called, asked for a meeting. By the way, I've had a meeting with him on SALT, LaGuardia Airport, on the AirTrain, on the Second Avenue Subway, so I called and asked for a meeting on TTP. The lawsuit he is talking about - all they do is sue me - he is talking about the Attorney General's lawsuit on his taxes which has offended him deeply.

Alan Chartock: But aren't you, isn't she also and you...

Governor Cuomo: But he didn't know that at the time. He is not referring to the current lawsuit which is going to be filled today. He's referring back to the Attorney General's lawsuit on the taxes which started under Attorney General Schneiderman. I called for a meeting, they said they would get back to me, they've never gotten back to me with a meeting, he then tweets I canceled the meeting which is totally untrue. I then called the President after that. I spoke to the President. I said we never had a meeting and therefore I never canceled a meeting because I'm requesting the meeting.

He was referring to the governors have a White House dinner last night that I was never attending because I was coming back to Albany yesterday afternoon and I wasn't going to that dinner. I was never going to that dinner.

Alan Chartock: Well was that a slap in his face, I mean by not going to the dinner?

Governor Cuomo: No, I've never been to that dinner. I've never been to that dinner.

Alan Chartock: Well just because you've never been there doesn't mean there isn't a time sort of for being nice.

Governor Cuomo: No, I've never been to the dinner. I never planned to be at the dinner. I never said I was going to be at the dinner. So I couldn't have canceled being at the dinner, and it's a social event with all the governors who are at the conference. I didn't even attend, I don't even believe I attended during the previous Administrations, and I don't want to go have a drink. I want to sit down and talk about, I want to have a meeting. I want to talk about the actual substance in the program. So I clarified that with the President and I said I want a meeting and he said he would call tomorrow, which is today, and they would set up a meeting so we'll see what happens.

Alan Chartock: Okay. Bill de Blasio, the New York City Mayor, is here for what is called Tin Cup day, when everyone comes up to beg you for money. Will you be meeting with the Mayor, while he's in town? How are you guys getting along these days? There seems to be a lot of talk for a long time about how you don't like each other.

Governor Cuomo: You know, there's a lot of talk in the media about a lot of things.

Alan Chartock: I agree with that.

Governor Cuomo: And the Mayor has his role, the Governor has his role. The Mayor of New York City and the Governor have a long history - I remember my father and Ed Koch, et cetera, so no, the Mayor will come advocate for the City and Tin Cup Day is the mayors in this state, and mayors around the country go to their states and the federal government and say, "We need more money." That's what they do, by the way. Every group during this time of year, the budget year, says the same word, "More, more, more." It's never enough because they're advocating for their cause right? So I need more education, I need more healthcare, I need more for this - all very good causes - more for my city, more for my county, more for my village, more for my town. But, don't raise taxes, don't raise taxes, because we're losing people, so that's the game that happens every year this time of year.

Alan Chartock: President Trump, back to him, he blames you and Mayor de Blasio for the attacks on New York City police officers over the weekend, saying weak leadership was to blame. A lot of people are saying, "Yeah we can't let people out of prison or out of jail under bail reform if they're really dangerous, if we don't give the judges the right to hold people." What do you say?

Governor Cuomo: Two separate issues: Bail reform and police relations. I won't comment on the President politicizing the shooting of a police officer. They politicize everything, but some things are just too cheap and disgusting to engage in, and the shooting of a police officer is one of the most serious things that can happen as far as I'm concerned, and I refuse to engage in politics around it. On the police, I have the greatest respect for the NYPD, police departments across the street, but the NYPD does a phenomenal job. I am a native New Yorker - as rare as that is now. In the old days everybody grew up in New York, but now we have a lot of people coming from all over, but I'm a native New Yorker. I grew up in Queens, a lot of the guys I grew up with, to be a police officer was one of the highest callings, and it's a terribly dangerous, pressing job. I am disturbed at the relations between the police department and the community. It's about trust and respect and it's a two-way street.

I was disturbed when I saw people throwing water on a New York Police Department official. I mean you throw water on a police officer? That scene, that video was very disturbing to me. That did not happen in my lifetime. You treated a police officer with total respect. The thought that you could throw water on a police officer - that's just frightening to me. You cannot operate the city that way. Police need to be respected, they represent the rule of law, and that's what keeps us all safe. They deserve respect, they deserve trust, and it has to be a two-way street with the community and the relation between the police and the community is dangerously frayed. There was a protest a couple of weeks ago with the protestors at a subway station, chanting foul-words at the NYPD. This is a serious situation, and it has to be addressed. I feel that very strongly. I spoke about the Attorney General James being available to local governments to help with the relationship between the communities. The Attorney General is the top legal officer in the state, if a locality wants to use her services to help facilitate the relationship, but I'm very concerned at the lack of respect for the NYPD.

Alan Chartock: Well do you have any real understanding of what's going on with the community people who are so angry? You know I agree with you - it's a terrible thing when a police officer is attacked, but you're saying there's dissonance between the community and the police or the community members and the police - what's that about? I mean, is there any justification for that dissonance?

Governor Cuomo: Yeah, Alan, it's a stressed relationship. Its feelings, right?

Alan Chartock: Well, what's the stress? What're the feelings?

Governor Cuomo: We have seen videos where people believe police have been unnecessarily aggressive, right? You can go back to the Eric Garner video, there were videos of police actions, you know, everybody now has a camera, right? There's also a video where people believe police have been overly aggressive from the police officer's side. You know, you go near anyone nowadays and you don't know if they have a gun, you don't know if they have a knife, and you want to make sure you go home at night. So I get the tension in the relationship, but the way it has played out is as bad as I have seen. You know, you'd have to go back decades to find this kind of stress between the police and the community. So I believe it's something that has to be addressed and it is about the relationship and it is about feelings. But the disrespect to the NYPD is intolerable from a societal point of view. They're working for all of us, they're keeping us all safe, and remember the number one victim of crimes tend to be members of the minority community. Those are the communities with higher crime rates geographically.

Alan Chartock: True.

Governor Cuomo: So, the relationship has to be attended to.

Alan Chartock: Let's talk a little bit about the meeting - you're President Elect of the Governor's Association, I believe, and so you've been saying all along that marijuana was being held up because you wanted to convene New Jersey, Connecticut, and New York all on the same page. Did you talk to those guys down there about this?

Governor Cuomo: Yes, but I never said that. I said regional collaboration and coordination would be good, but I don't see that as a sin qua non for a state passing it. We have a political question on the passage. Yes it's popular statewide, but there are still people with political qualms about it. So, it's not only pass it when you have regional coordination, pass it when you can with regional coordination. The governor's meeting overall was very refreshing for me. You know, governors are a different breed, right?

Alan Chartock: Sure, I absolutely believe that.

Governor Cuomo: They are, they are. And they've made that clear. You know, they have to get the job done at the end of the day, so they have a different orientation. It's less political. It's more practical. They tend to cut to the chase, if you will, right? We'll all this discussion, yeah that's nice, but it's all irrelevant, right? A governor has to focus on making sure the lights go on and the place is safe and the economy is running. So, they tend to be less hyperbolic, less political, more practical and there's more intellectual honesty, I think, in their discussion. We didn't discuss this at the meeting, but all this talk about the presidential and this presidential candidate's going to do this and this presidential candidate's going to this. Yeah, except you can't do anything on the Democratic side unless we also have a Democratic Senate, right? President comes in, "well I wish this." Yeah, they don't hand you a magic wand, Alan, you now have to get the legislation. And you have to get it through the House and you have to get it through the Senate. And you have to make sure even if it's all Democrats that you have consensus among the Democrats.

Alan Chartock: Yeah, but you're such a strong leader, people say that about you, you can get anything you want. We've talked about this before. So, you know, is the bologna?

Governor Cuomo: Yes, that's a good word. Did you come up with that word?

Alan Chartock: I love bologna.

Governor Cuomo: It's a very New York word, by the way.

Alan Chartock: Well I am a New Yorker, 90/60. That's where I grew up, not in some foreign country, you know, across one of those bridges. I grew up in New York City.

Governor Cuomo: There it is, that Manhattan arrogance. That out-of-borough edge and that's why I have that out-of-borough chip on my shoulder like Mario Cuomo to this day.

Governor Cuomo: There it is, that Manhattan arrogance, that outerborough edge. And that's why I have that outerborough chip on my shoulder, like Mario Cuomo, to this day.

Alan Chartock: You said over the weekend that you don't think Bernie Sanders is the best democratic candidate to beat Trump because the label socialist will be a bitter pill to swallow. You favored Joe Biden, but if Biden is so popular why didn't he take what he labeled as a gut punch in Iowa, not to mention his poor polling in tomorrow's New Hampshire primary.

Governor Cuomo: My, that was a provocative question.

Alan Chartock: Yes, I thought so.

Governor Cuomo: And you're even forecasting the poor showing tomorrow in New Hampshire. Look, every candidate has plusses and minuses, right? And every candidate brings different issues to the situation. I think that one of the issues that Bernie Sanders brings is the "remember that he's a socialist." And you know, the Democratic Party primary is one thing, but I think that's going to be an issue in the general election. Joe Biden, yes he did not do well at all in Iowa and they're forecasting that he doesn't do well in New Hampshire, I think it's still early Alan, I don't know that those states are necessarily representative of the Democratic Party nationwide. Why are they early? Why do they do caucuses in Iowa? I don't know, you have to ask somebody above my pay grade.

Alan Chartock: Well you don't like caucuses any more than I do, do you? They're sort of funny.

Governor Cuomo: No. No. No. And I don't like these early litmus tests that have this, such a heavy focus of the media when they are not that representative of the party. You know?

Alan Chartock: Cuomo criticizes Vermont and New Hampshire as being not representative - that's the headline.

Governor Cuomo: No. It is: why don't we have a primary process that either has more elections up front so you can get a real test? You know? Not just Iowa and New Hampshire. Iowa, New Hampshire, New York, California. You know, have a smattering of states that are more representative.

Alan Chartock: Well you're right, but that's just the way it is. It hasn't changed before, these guys know economic opportunity when they see it and they're not going to change, right? I want to know something else.

Governor Cuomo: No, somebody can change it. You know everything is the way it is. The question is how do you change it to make it better?

Alan Chartock: Okay, what's the answer to that question?

Governor Cuomo: I think you'd have more states up front so when you take that initial snapshot it's a broader, more representative snapshot.

Alan Chartock: Yeah, yeah, you're right. But how do you get it done?

Governor Cuomo: Well look, there are people you pay to do that. You know that's federally done, but that's what the Democratic Party should be talking about.

Alan Chartock: How about coronavirus cases in New York? Anything that you want to tell us? A lot of people travel between New York City and China. Is New York's economy going to take a hit from this virus?

Governor Cuomo: Coronavirus, everyone is watching, right? And everyone is wary and everyone is making preparations and we are making preparations. We've gone through situations like this before - the Ebola virus, the Zika virus, et cetera. We take nothing for granted. We are hyper-cautious because of who we are and where we are. We have not had a positive coronavirus test yet. But Alan, we will, we will. I don't want to set a false precedent.

Alan Chartock: I thought somebody died in New York City?

Governor Cuomo: Unless I missed it over the weekend

Alan Chartock: Okay yeah, I think maybe so. But go ahead.

Governor Cuomo: Okay, but I don't want to set a false premise. We will have people who test positive for the coronavirus, is my informed opinion. So I don't want to make it sound like well we don't have any yet and if we do then we have a problem. We anticipate that we will and we have the facilities set up and there are quarantine facilities, et cetera.

Alan Chartock: Where are they?

Governor Cuomo: They're in different parts of the state depending on where you're a resident, primarily in New York City, it would be Jamaica Hospital, Bellevue Hospital, if you come in through JFK, which is our main point of entry, it's one of the designated airports. But we will, I think it's almost inevitable but that we will, places around the country have, and as long as you're prepared to handle it, it's fine. The fear on the coronavirus is if it increased dramatically, it could be problematic for the health care system to deal with by and large. But that's what they're looking at. It's not that if you have a case of coronavirus then you have a dire situation in that locality.

Alan Chartock: Okay. So, we have wonderful Chinatown in Manhattan, you know where I came from born in Brooklyn, which I've recently been in, what happens to them? Have we had any indication that people are avoiding anything Chinese?

Governor Cuomo: I've heard that anecdotally. I don't have any information that would suggest that, Alan. But you know, fear is the problem in these situations. I was talking about this over the weekend to a couple of people, any of these emergency situations, floods, snow storms, what I'm most worried about is the fear itself, it's the panic that can set in. One of the reasons I'm so diligent about showing up at situations where there's an issue, why I'm doing coronavirus briefings all the time, the panic is the problem and it's important to communicate that we're on top of this, we're prepared, we understand it. No reason to feel undue anxiety. Yes, it's inevitable that we're going to have a case of coronavirus, most experts say it's probable, but that's okay. When you hear that, don't overreact. It's about being prepared for it and having the precautions and having the health care system ready. So, I work very hard at that in a myriad of applications.

Alan Chartock: Okay. I'm sorry, Governor. I know that I'm rude, but I wanted to talk to you about the $3 billion environmental bond act and how we're going to pay for that. Is there another way to fund it? Making fossil fuel companies pay for it, could tax levy amended to eliminate loopholes for oil giants?

Governor Cuomo: I'm glad you mentioned that, and I don't find you particularly rude. Or let me say, I don't find you any ruder than you have been for the predominance of your adult life.

Alan Chartock: For a Manhattan guy.

Governor Cuomo: Yeah. For a Manhattan guy who looks down on outer borough guys like--

Alan Chartock: Well that used to say, all my friends said, "we're going to the city to visit Chartock." We're going to the City, as if there is only one.

Governor Cuomo: No, no. I am one of the unwashed masses from Queens.

Alan Chartock: Did I say that? Now you cut it out.

Governor Cuomo: Who have to go over a bridge-

Alan Chartock: I never said that. That is so Trump-esque.

Governor Cuomo: --to go into Manhattan, where all the smart people live. But it is important, and although you're rude, I respect that you don't just follow the sizzle, you go for the steak, which most journalists nowadays, or many, just follow sizzle. The steak here is we have a budget that has a lot of substantive programs in it that are going to make major changes. Everybody is focused on Medicaid and how we cover the Medicaid cost shortfall, and the bail reform issue. But, we have in that budget, April 1, which is just a couple of months--

Alan Chartock: We've got one minute, Governor.

Governor Cuomo: Environmental bond issue, $33 billion -- the largest investment by any state in the United States to fight climate change, $3 billion of which will be a bond issue, which will do natural restoration of resiliency and will be on the ballot in November. $3 billion because we don't have the money to fund it with cash, but it is an investment, because when we move to renewables we will save money long term.

Alan Chartock: Okay. Listen, I appreciate your time, I always do. I'm glad you're back, I don't know where you went but you're back, and I so appreciate that and we'll be looking forward to the next time, if there is a next time.

Governor Cuomo: I was in the South of France, but don't tell anyone.

Alan Chartock: So long.