Audio & Rush Transcript: Governor Cuomo is a Guest on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah

Earlier tonight, Governor Andrew M. Cuomo was a guest on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah.

AUDIO is available here.

A rush transcript of the Governor's interview is available below:

Trevor Noah: Governor Andrew Cuomo, welcome to the Daily Social Distancing Show.

Governor Cuomo: Pleasure to be with you. I am a big fan.

Trevor Noah: Well, thank you very much. I think everyone is a big fan of yours right now because, more than ever during this pandemic, people have sought out leaders who communicate effectively and seem to know what they're trying to do. Nobody has all the answers about coronavirus, but people look for leaders who know what they would like to do. Let's start off with New York. Where does New York stand right now in terms of the numbers and in terms of its trajectory?

Governor Cuomo: Well, the good news is we have shown that we can control the spread of the virus, right? Which people take for granted now, but I wasn't always so sure. We could have taken all these measures, closed down, stay home, and we could have seen that spread continue to go up. That would have been a really frightening place, but that was a possibility. We showed that we can control the spread. It went up, the so called plateau would hit a flat spot and now we are on the downside of the plateau. The question is how fast is that decline and how long does it take to make the decline? We have about 1,300 people per day, new diagnoses, coming into the system. We lost about 474 people yesterday which is a horrific number, but it's - The only good news is it is less than the previous numbers of people we lost. And the hospitalization rate is coming down. We have about 16,000 people in hospitals. So, the numbers are all on the decline and that's the good news. How long does it take until that number gets to a small enough level where you can sleep at night and not worry about it? Could be two weeks, could be three weeks, could be six weeks.

Trevor Noah: You are balancing the pressure of the people who want to and need to get back to earning a living and also, you know, the pressure of keeping people safe as a leader. How are you weighing these numbers? Is there a point when you say the risk is worth taking to go outside?

Governor Cuomo: You put the question very well. And often the question is more important than the answer, and here is one of those cases, I think. That is the balance. The pressure that people are under is phenomenal. It is traumatic. This is traumatic for people and that's the way I think about it. You are right, the economic pressure, you have no paycheck, but meanwhile they are still sending the bills. The bill collector is an essential worker and they are piling up on your desk. You don't know when you will go back. You don't know if you will go back. You don't know if your job is still there, if your business is still there. You have been in the house with the family for a month. It sounds romantic, the first seven days, and then it gets highly stressful when you have everyone in that environment with nothing to do and everyone has their own stress. So, people are about to burst on one level. They are under that kind of pressure. On the other hand, we had 474 people die yesterday. You tell me how many people go outside today and touch other people, I will tell you how many people walk into a hospital three days from now. The cause and effect is that tight. This virus communicates and transfers that quickly and that precisely. So, you take a situation like New York City where social distancing cannot happen by definition. Nobody gets six square feet of real estate, right? You don't get six feet on a subway car or on a bus or sidewalk. You will see those numbers go up. It is an impossible balance, Trevor. It's impossible to make people, to make both sides happy, if you will. And you just have to accept that. And for me it's going to be about the data. We're going to do testing. We're going to look at the hospitalization rate. We're going to look at that death rate. And you don't start to reopen until you haves those numbers under control.

Trevor Noah: So, what is that number for you? Do you have that number? Is there a number that medical professionals or experts have given to you and said this is the number that we think activates New York's reopening?

Governor Cuomo: They won't give me the number, Trevor, because you're right, nobody has been here on any of these situations. What they will say is the number will decline to a level that is basically a low constant. Because you can't stop all transmission of the virus. We're never going to get down to zero. So, when you get down to the lowest level you can, that is your low point. Because remember, the economy is not really closed down. You still have essential workers out there. You have people on buses and transportation and people in grocery stores. So that will be some low level constant and once we hit that number then you can talk about starting to reopen.

Trevor Noah: So, we're seeing governors around America, we're seeing leaders around the world using different tactics to reopen their country. For instance, in Denmark they started opening up a few schools. In Germany they're getting ready to do that. In Georgiathey said they are going straight to bowling alleys and hair dressing salons, et cetera. Doyou have an idea? Are you going to say to New Yorkers we will start with these industries or this world and then we're going to move to this or that? Or does it all open at once? Doyou have an idea of what that would be?

Governor Cuomo: No, it has to be phased in. It has to be slow and building and watch that infection rate as you start to open up the valve to reopen, right? As you increase the flow, keep your eye on that infection rate. We're going to have the most aggressive testing program ever done just to monitor that infection rate. Remember, the hospitalization rate is too late. Hospitalization rate is people who are so sick they went into a hospital. Wewant to track the infection rate. So we watch that, start opening the flow slowly and then basically it is a matrix. How essential is the business and how high a risk does the business pose? The more essential businesses first and the lower risk businesses first. So, barbershops, hair salons, to me they are on the end of the chain because they are not that essential. People would argue, but in the scope of things, they are not that essentialand they are high risk because I want to see a person perform a haircut and maintain social distancing while they give you a haircut. And I want to see the haircut that they do after they did it socially distant. So that would be at the back end, right? On the front end, you would just basically be doing the next traunch of essential services, right? What is the next level of essential and low risk essential?

Trevor Noah: Well, that's part one with Governor Cuomo and we will have more right after this break.

Trevor Noah: Earlier today, I spoke with New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, here is more of the interview.

Trevor Noah: You are in an interesting place right now where you are the Governor of New York, but you are one of many governors who has entered into a pact to try and open up a region. Because as you said publicly, the virus doesn't follow state lines. You can't implement approach without the federal government helping you where it needs to. Now, yourself and Trump have gone back and forth, but one thing you've both acknowledged is that when it comes down to it, you know how to communicate and you work together. Youhad a meeting with the President. Was there anything fruitful from that meeting? Is there anything that is going to come from that meeting? And what is the relationship between yourself and Trump slash the federal government right now in getting New York what it needs?

Governor Cuomo: The relationship between myself and the President is the President doesn't like me. That is the relationship. It is unambiguous, it is honest, it is open. And he doesn't like my politics, let's say. And we have been at political loggerheads many times over the past few years. If you look at his twitter account, you will see my name quite often, none of it good, Trevor, none of it good. And I have sued the federal government a number of times. So, it is open and it is not necessarily loving. Having said that, we had a meeting in the White House and it was a very productive meeting. And I don't mean in diplomatic, conceptual talk. It was an honest, open, granular, detailed conversation about this subject of testing which is totally new for everyone. It's an impossible undertaking because the numbers are just so extraordinary and there is so much urgency to it. But we had a very honest conversation and we went through what is testing, and what should the state do and what should the federal government do. We basically allocated tasks. So it was a very positive conversation. And look, I give them credit because it is hard to actually sit down with someone who you have differences with and say put that all aside and let's just do our job here - our respective jobs - because it is bigger than we are. And that is what yesterday was. It was forget everything else. We're talking about life and death.We're talking about the profound moment of our history that we will experience and we have a job to do because we're in a position, and let's just do it and forget everything else.And that is the way it should be. Who cares how he feels or how I feel? Who cares about how I feel about him personally? My feelings are irrelevant. My emotions are irrelevant. Just do the job. Who cares about what I think or what he thinks? And that's what yesterday was.

Trevor Noah: It is really great to hear. And the testing part of it is what really jumps out for me because one thing most people seem to agree upon all across the world is with testing that is going to be our best defense against coronavirus before a vaccine - testing and tracing this virus. What does that mean though for you as a the Governor of New York.Does it mean every New Yorker has some method where they are self-testing or getting tested and then monitoring themselves? Does it mean that people who come from out of state or out of country can or cannot come in unless they are tested? I'm really intrigued by how this will work because unless the whole world is doing the same thing, one hole might be a local for everybody. It could sink the entire ship. So what does that mean for you in terms of testing and how it will be applied?

Governor Cuomo: There will always be a net with many holes in it to stick with your analogy. I don't think you're going to have enough tests anywhere to design the perfect system, okay. Testing capacity - we are trying to jump start a testing laboratory system that just doesn't do this. I have private labs in my state, there are national manufacturers of lab kits and lab equipment, but we're asking them to go to 50 times what they've been doing. If you took every machine in the state of New York that does this, and you ran itself seven days a week, 24 hours a day, you could get up to about 40,000 tests per day, all right. That is the maximum capacity. Sounds like a lot, but it's not when you are talking about 19 million people. I have done more tests in this state than any state in the United States. We do more tests than any country per capita and we have tested about 500,000 people. Sounds like a lot of people. But again, not on a population of 19 million, not on a workforce of 9 million. And that was 500 in one month. You want to bring them back based on tests, you can't do it.

What tests can do, is monitor the spread of the virus. That you can do with tests. And that is the single most important thing to me. Because as you are opening, the reopening valve and increasing the flow, what you need to know is how many people are getting infected and that testing can do for you. It can also do antibody testing, which tells us how many people were infected but also identifies people who can do the convalescent plasma treatment, which is important. And it gives employers a tool in their workplace to test a smaller number so you know for those that next tranche of essential businesses that their workers are fine. But you are never going to be able to do a net that covers New York or any other state.

Trevor Noah: As the governor, you are facing a pandemic right now, in one of the most affected places in the world. The horizon, unfortunately, brings with it another dark side and that is people's finances. You know, yes, some people may have been able to stop paying their mortgage, some may have been given a little leeway to pay their rent or not pay their rent. What happens on the other side of this? Is there a plan to help people, to help New Yorkers who now may have a landlord who says well, you owe me two times the rent, now you owe me double this or double that, is there any plans to try and alleviate that stress that may be felt post-coronavirus?

Governor Cuomo: We're talking about it, Trevor, and we are thinking about it. We don't have a specific plan yet because we don't know how bad it is. I have said short term no one can be evicted for nonpayment, okay. So, you are out of work, you are not having a check. You cannot be evicted for nonpayment. That is the immediate short-term problem, right. Depending on how long this goes, you will have other issues down the road, no doubt. The expression, "Stone to stone across the morass," how do you get across the morass? And that's all we right now is a morass in front of us. Stone to stone. You don't have to figure out the whole path, just find the next firm stone to advance your progress. And that's what we are doing. So, deal with it here and now, and then we'll figure out the future when we actually see what the future is, because were we have been wrong from day one here, right. Every projection has turned out to be incorrect. So, I am at the point where, let me see the facts that I am dealing with and then we'll deal with it.

Trevor Noah: When we come back, we will complete the trilogy of my interview with Governor Cuomo.

Trevor Noah: In today's episode we've been going in-depth with Governor Andrew Cuomo, so here is the final part of our interview.

...

Trevor Noah: One thing you've done as governor that has been particularly unique amongst leaders is you haven't just I think given people platitudes, you came out with really stern warnings really early on, you were very grim in your forecast, you just told the people what information you had. It's a very unique way to handle a press conference. You've also been very personal in telling the stories that you've told.

Trevor Noah: Is there a reason you chose to do this because some of these, I'm going to hide it all and not share anything with the public, I'll just make them feel good. You've chosen a completely different approach. Why? Because I haven't slept at night and I feel like you could have carried some of that burden for me but I want to know why you chose to not do that?

Governor Cuomo: We had our first case on March 1. I was going to put in some of the most dramatic government mandates in history. No other governor has shut down the economy. No other governor has ever said you have to stay home. If New Yorkers had said, no, I'm not doing it, and New Yorkers are a defiant bunch, I would have been powerless. I can't enforce a stay at home order for 19 million people. The ability to have a plan was purely dependent on New Yorkers buying in and they are smart, and they are cynical, and if they don't believe you, or you haven't made your argument and you haven't laid out the facts, they're not going to do it - especially when you're asking them to do something they don't want to do, especially when you are asking them to do something they have never done before. I mean just think about saying to New Yorkers, everybody must stay home, lock the door, you can't go outside, except to go buy food and then you have to run right back home. No. No. I am a native New Yorker. My first instinct is no, I'm not doing that. That's nice but I'm not doing it. So they have to believe it. They have to understand it. And I am not in the business of not telling the truth or trying to manipulate or I'm only going to tell you what you can handle because I'm worried about what you can actually absorb. No. I am not there to filter. I am not there to manipulate. Here is the situation. Here are the facts. I am going to tell you everything I know. You know everything I know. And just the way I know it. No sugarcoating.

Trevor Noah: There is no lying that everyone has been affected by this. Some days I feel like life is normal. Some days I feel like this is the craziest thing we have ever experienced and it swings wildly and I know everyone has a different experience of it. I don't know what it's like to be a leader, a governor of a state where thousands of people are dying and you are hearing this, you are seeing the stories, you are responsible for these lives. You are not responsible for the deaths but you are responsible for the lives of the people and keeping everybody safe, as safe as you can. What has that done for you as a person? Like how are you doing and how are you doling with this?

Governor Cuomo: On the communication - which as I said is so important because really this is all a voluntary program by New Yorkers, they changed their behavior, they brought down the infection rate - but I gave them the information. Part of the information was personal because this is traumatic. This is PTSD for an entire generation that will talk about this and it is personal. So I tried to communicate how I feel personally and my fear and my anxiety as part of this to say to you, you are not alone. Everyone is feeling this. I am feeling it too. The one differentiation is I have to deal with the number of deaths in the state. Fifteen thousand people, Trevor. 9/11, 2,700 people; 9/11, 2,700 people. That was supposed to be the worst experience of my life, I believed. Twenty-seven hundred people. This is 15,000 people, 474 people yesterday. That weighs heavily on me.

I can sit here and say to you, "I believe that we did everything that could possibly be done." I don't believe we lost anyone because we didn't have a bed, we didn't have doctors and nurses. We did that, but we still lost 15,000 people. I still am the Governor and I still hold myself responsible and I still say to myself, "What else could I do? What else could I do? What else could I do?" Was there anything else that we could be doing right now. That is a very heavy burden to bear.

Trevor Noah: You've also had an interesting connection to the coronavirus on a very personal level. I know we've got to let you go soon, but I wanted to chat with you a little bit about a strange journey that many of us have gone on where we got introduced to a loveand a friendship that you share with your brother who is on CNN. For many people, we've never seen this side of you. We've never seen you and your brother, the way you joke with each other and then it came out that Chris had coronavirus. Now all of a sudden his world was turned upside down. Did any of that experience shake you in a different way when it became that much closer to you as a person?

Governor Cuomo: Oh yeah. For sure it did. Again, in the same way the powerlessness. Powerlessness. There's my brother and he's my man. He's my best friend and you know I don't like to give him any credit because that's the whole big brother, little brother thing. But the guy is a superstar, he really is and he's a beautiful guy. Just a beauty.

He gets sick, he's in his basement. I can't even go see him. Then his wife gets sick, she's quarantined upstairs. He's quarantined in the basement. He's got 3 kids, a seventeen-year-old and two younger kids and I can't go see him, I can't help the kids. It's this terrible nightmare of a science-fiction movie where you can have loved ones with this disease where nobody knows whether you're going to live or die. I kept saying to him, "Don't worry, you're young and you're fine." Yeah, sure, but who knows? Yes, it tends to attack seniors, but you also have younger people who are dying. There's nothing I can do. I'm his big brother, I love him more than anybody. I'm the Governor of the state. Nothing that I can do to help.

That is a humbling situation to be in. It just shows you how we all try to be in control. You're in control of nothing. You're in control of nothing at the end of the day. Men plan and God laughs. It's, on top of all the disorientation, on top of the responsibility, then you just have this real life situation where you're worried every day. Is he going to be the one that could lose his life, that could die from this. It does bring it home. It does bring it home, Trevor.

Trevor Noah: Governor, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. Hopefully we'll be seeing you on the show on the other side of this. Look after yourself, mentally, physically and thank you so much for joining us on the Daily Social Distancing Show.

Governor Cuomo: Thank you. I'll keep watching.

Trevor Noah: Have a good one